Hangout with Leif Haven and Jared Joseph (Jun 23, 2015 - 4:07 PM)

Leif Haven – 4:07 PM
well hell aint we all
good god
why is this happening
why did this happen

jared harvey – 4:08 PM

Leif Haven – 4:08 PM
i mean really

jared harvey – 4:08 PM
was it ever not happening
did it ever stop happening
is it not not not happening now

Leif Haven – 4:09 PM
u rite
it's happening all around us
/ it is us

jared harvey – 4:10 PM
it is us

Leif Haven – 4:12 PM
so my recommendation to you is
send him the longest thing that you would be willing to have published by him
i send him a collection of fiction and my mfa thesis
i think i might send him this tract manuscript
because nothing bro
nothing mattress

jared harvey – 4:14 PM
alright i'm sending them bullshit now

Leif Haven – 4:16 PM
destroyed fortress reappears
peanut butter oven
graveyard drug party
the master's bedroom is worth spending a night in
you will see this dog before you die

jared harvey – 4:17 PM
best titles ever

Leif Haven – 4:17 PM
you oughtta go home
cool death
meat step lively
you could just write a book of thee oh sees title
and send it to them
for um
meet the seed

jared harvey – 4:18 PM
meat the cleavers

Leif Haven – 4:22 PM
AA Warm Breeze
Corprophagist (A Bath Perhaps)
is an amazing title

jared harvey – 4:24 PM
fuck god

Leif Haven – 7:04 PM
what did you send to the mainline

jared harvey – 7:04 PM
and then in a few days if (when) nothing, i'll send chronicles
and then never again

Leif Haven – 7:10 PM
maybe i should send him
seven million words of auto blaguing
The Harley-Davidson Ultra Low: High Quality Bagger

jared harvey – 7:12 PM
High Quality Beggar

Leif Haven – 7:12 PM
Fresh Toil™
this shits really making me want to jump off something high more than usual today

jared harvey – 7:13 PM
you near done

Leif Haven – 7:13 PM
oh i got a couple left
i'm not like worried about it
they sprung a selection of assignments from another team, so it took a little longer than usual

jared harvey – 7:14 PM

Leif Haven – 7:14 PM
ß˚∆ƒ¬˜å*on me*߬∆˜çˆœø

jared harvey – 7:14 PM
that's beautiful

Leif Haven – 7:15 PM

it usually only takes me a few hours, and i'm sort of consciously pushing it into the evening as an effort to start drinking later and therefore less

jared harvey – 7:15 PM ah Leif Haven – 7:15 PM that could also be making me want to å∆¬∂∆åøπjump off something߈∑≥嘈 jared harvey – 7:15 PM very wise Leif Haven – 7:15 PM or jump into a bottle of gin giving myself essentially all morning to try to write and edit feels luxurious and somehow obscene and hard like it's a long time to just try to do that for me  jared harvey – 7:17 PM that's great though how does it feel Leif Haven – 7:18 PM how do you really feel idk. it feels like i should be getting more done

but i did write 1,200 words today -- and i probably deleted at least 6-800, so it's more like a gross of 2,000 and a net of 1,200

jared harvey – 7:19 PM that's 60% of 100% profit that's great actually Leif Haven – 7:20 PM i had this stupid thought that i don't have with poetry books, where i thought "i've put all this time into this, but what if it's just... bad. what if it just sucks. would i even be able to tell?" jared harvey – 7:21 PM that's interesting i wonder why that is although i relate to it with poetry books i'm always like who cares i don't care i'm even lately like Leif Haven – 7:21 PM right. that's what i'm saying i guess jared harvey – 7:21 PM i like this but with essays for example papers i lack confidence in those fiction i don't often write Leif Haven – 7:22 PM right, essays are the same jared harvey – 7:22 PM but when i write prose in general i usually feel good about it Leif Haven – 7:23 PM

journalism/non-fiction are like splitting the difference -- either i don't care enough to care, or i care too much to even like do it and making it public or submitting or publishing is really nerve wracking  much moreso than poetry for me

fiction usually falls in the latter category i think hence the 150k words of fiction that i haven't really submitted much jared harvey – 7:24 PM right do you think it has anything to do with fiction/prose being more a medium of communication being considered that way, i mean and so there's more "at stake" for the writer/communicator/origin of said communications Leif Haven – 7:25 PM yes i actually thought about this mere moments ago on my bike ride from bica to home

because i never grew out of (because duh) some sort of nihilism / existentialism about whether communication is even you know

possible wittgenstein, et al and fiction is like trying to maybe do or say something where as poetry is just, you know bullshit for bullshit's sake or whatever i don't remember why i was thinking about this just moments ago actually which is as appropriate as anything jared harvey – 7:30 PM not even yr thoughts can communicate themselves to you Leif Haven – 7:30 PM right. jared harvey – 7:31 PM for me it's sort of like people sort of assume poems are beyond their reach they still think it's communicating something but most people think it's beyond them and don't even try so for the poet it's kind of like green light with fiction it's different accessibility is expected the opposite is often meant with contempt met i meant met the assumption people make for both still is that something is trying to be communicated people are stupid Leif Haven – 7:32 PM yeah jared harvey – 7:32 PM what jars me about academic writing is that i am actually trying to communicate something but i still resist trying to communicate that something in the end which is why i like wittgenstein spivak derrida benjamin et al. who seem to employ a certain intentional self-sabotage or opacity Leif Haven – 7:34 PM because there is fundamentally nothing to communicate / no communication there is only the void to jump into yeah it's funny. i feel that the fiction i usually like opens up the void jared harvey – 7:37 PM yeah same your fiction is very good i am confident in it Leif Haven – 7:37 PM i guess the fiction that makes the most sense to me works more like poetry anyway it's just approached differently / there's a different kind of scale

i'm not sure what i'm saying, i guess maybe that plays into this thought, where i'm like 'if this were poetry, simple juxtaposition, metonymy, non-sequiturs, make up the logic of the thing'

jared harvey – 7:39 PM right

the thing is, apart from the zurita thing - but also a part of it, in the sort of poem-asides that interrupt the zurita thing and that i number page 0 - the poems i've been drawn to writing lately have been more like fiction

or narrative, anyway narrativity is interesting to me i guess and the sort of artificiality of it, in terms of constructing a sort of history among all the possible histories that one can construct one often chooses one that's meant to replace and deny all others all narrations to me appear to work that way and making it poetic i think problematizes the self-naturalizing function of narrative which interests me i guess but those poems i am less confident about submitting and publishing etc. Leif Haven – 7:44 PM yes, i understand that but it's also probably a good to fair bet that they would be easier to publish i think narrativity is interesting when it's ruptured or broken

that's what i enjoy about Bolaño, or Delillo, or you know, just about anyone, where narrative doesn't work
it works but it doesn't work in the way you want it to and that leaves you falling into something

jared harvey – 7:46 PM right Leif Haven – 7:46 PM it's also how narrative can be good in poetry i think, and how good short stories function jared harvey – 7:46 PM i think that's why they've obsessed us in the past because of the story doesn't quite end then you the reader never leave it Leif Haven – 7:46 PM

or like, there is no story. the story is void. it's like they're saying that narrative itself is just illusory or some kind of elaborate fallacy, 

in gravity's rainbow it works in a less lopped off way, and works by way of overloading you with discursion, so that the narrative sort of explodes

rather than dissolves, or implodes, or self annihilates  jared harvey – 7:48 PM right i still feel that way about 2666 like, what is the point of that book what is the primary story Leif Haven – 7:48 PM right the compelling part is that there is no story jared harvey – 7:49 PM critics try to find archimboldi that's the goal stated from the outset and from the outset it begins to fall away it's not linear so much as it is a bell curve but the center is more a nadir rather than a peak and the nadir has the most gravity and what's at the nadir but 300 pages of brutality and violence against women after getting "past" that the story has no point anymore you never really move past that trauma it's as if narrative is just a flimsy effort at moving past hell Leif Haven – 7:51 PM right, well, that's mirrored in the life of 'archimboldi' as well who emerges from wwii to be a writer jared harvey – 7:52 PM right and that's the other thing, the sheer amount of narratives within the larger narrative some of which are fractal-like such as archimboldi becoming a writer but archimboldi is himself jellyfish-like, writes from and about the void, formlessly that's what compels him other narratives have nothing to do with the Narrative whadda shitshow Leif Haven – 7:53 PM how did this bullshit ever get published unbelievable jared harvey – 7:53 PM srsly Leif Haven – 7:53 PM there's not even a story jared harvey – 7:53 PM i guess it helped that he died Leif Haven – 7:54 PM i think it's funny in mein struggle where noseguard is working on a novel this might be in the second one

he shows it to someone he respects or something. maybe he has a publisher or editor already at this point, and they're just like, "This is terrible. There's no story. You've got to tell a story."

jared harvey – 7:54 PM ah yeah that's in the first Leif Haven – 7:55 PM wink-wink-nod-nod jared harvey – 7:56 PM he also continually brings up the fact that he burned all his diaries and his notebooks

and yet here he is writing an unbelievably (literally, i do not believe you) meticulous account of his life

another reason not to believe him is because he regularly says i have a terrible memory even, i never remember the things people have said to me but there is so much dialogue in the book Leif Haven – 7:57 PM right jared harvey – 7:57 PM so the wink wink nudge nudge moment for me is when he says "I had no history, and so I made myself one, much as a Nazi party might in a satellite suburb." Leif Haven – 7:58 PM it is called a novel after all that jared harvey – 7:58 PM an autobiographical novel cycle

it's interesting that in the book jacket of the paperback nearly all the reviews are from european countries/presses/newspapers etc.

and they all call it "literature"

as if it's obvious to them that this problematizes the notion of autobiography and fiction simultaneously and to such a degree that you can't really call it anything but

Leif Haven – 8:00 PM hell i'm calling this literature jared harvey – 8:01 PM aw hell Leif Haven – 8:01 PM maybe this is what we send carrie it'll be real we need more  emojis or gifs or pictures of owls or jared harvey – 8:01 PM


this video is like paradise why don't i live here Leif Haven – 8:03 PM

i was thinking. i never go to cool parties like this "it problematizes the notion of gchat and communication to such a degree that none* is possible and you can only throw up your hands and say 'this is how we do it' and call it literature"

jared harvey – 8:05 PM i second that emoji Leif Haven – 8:06 PM oh god jared harvey – 8:06 PM alright i'm going to make dinner and listen to this song for the rest of my life wha happund Leif Haven – 8:06 PM the song that came on after that was blackstreat - no diggity street jared harvey – 8:07 PM i guess by "for the rest of my life" i meant after i listen to "no diggity" for the rest of my life because that is what has come for me as well i feel i have been found Queen Pen is a great name that will be my queen pen name from now on Leif Haven – 8:08 PM we've really accomplished something in this narrative jared harvey – 8:09 PM no diggity no doubt